OK, let’s take another run at this. Do we get our morality from God, and then corrupt it because of our inherent imperfection?
In earlier posts I argued that morality doesn’t come from religion or God. I reasoned that if morality comes from religion, which religion? There are hundreds of versions of Christianity each with their own concepts of what constitutes morality, and they can’t all be correct; so that would seem to rule out the vast majority of religions as the source of morality. Of course each religion believes theirs is The One, but the fact that there’s more overlap than differences seems to indicate that religions per se aren’t the source of morality, but something higher; in other words, maybe religions are taking their cue from some other source. That source would logically be “god,” of course.
So maybe religions interpret what God intends, but they do so imperfectly. That would allow for God to be the ultimate source of morality, with imperfect interpretation by humans, kind of like Plato’s metaphor of the cave; what we see is an imperfect and ill-focused version of the “real.” OK then; but if true, wouldn’t it make sense that God would not allow for misinterpretation? For example, if you’re a parent, wouldn’t it make sense to be crystal clear on instructions to your children, especially on important matters? And if we, as imperfect humans, see the importance of clarity, wouldn’t God (in whose image we’re told we were made) be even more aware of this? And yet we all struggle to understand how to live a moral life; so I argued that if God was in fact the source of morality, he did a pretty poor job of communicating some critically important instructions to us. If our relationship with Him is dependent upon doing His will, but we don’t know for sure what that is (at least in the context of what is “moral”), how can we really be held accountable for our actions? And yet it seems clear from the Bible that we are held accountable; some even believe that what we do in our lives could conceivably condemn us to torment for all eternity (although I never bought that!) In any case, it seems to follow that our sense of morality would be much more clear if it were truly God-given. (This is just one of several lines of reasoning on this subject.)
One response to that is we were given this sense of morality by god, but Satan and our own imperfection has clouded our minds. This is essentially what I was taught as a young JW. (It’s a very Manichean belief system!) And it naturally followed that we shouldn’t think for ourselves, but should rely on the standards set out in the Bible to tell us what was right and wrong. And since the Bible is pretty confusing and doesn’t deal with things going on now (the Internet, birth control, celebrating birthdays and whether or not to agree to a blood transfusion, as specific examples), we were told on one hand to accept the Bible, but on the other hand to “not put too much emphasis on our own understanding of it.” In other words, it’s best to let the leaders in Brooklyn tell us what to do; they should interpret the Bible for us. And if you’d prefer, substitute the Pope, Joel Osteen or Jim and Tammy Faye for the Governing Body of the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society in Brooklyn and you’ve got the same concept: as imperfect humans we should not depend upon our own moral compass but should let other, presumably smarter or more “holy” folks do it for us.
Well, setting aside the whole Jim and Tammy Faye thing, does it make sense that we can’t really judge morality for ourselves due to our “fallen state?” Let’s say the answer is “yes.” Then we’re back to the same question: how could the personification of love (God) continue to hold us accountable? If we can’t possibly know what’s moral, it makes no sense that we would be in peril of God’s wrath for not being able to follow a moral code that’s murky at best and outright contradictory at worst.
So again, the issue is the same: if God is going to hold us accountable, then why is it not more clear what constitutes a moral life? We shouldn’t have such a hard time figuring it out!
About BigBill
Stats: Married male boomer.
Hobbies: Hiking, woodworking, reading, philosophy, good conversation.
The source of morality (part 4)
OK, let’s take another run at this. Do we get our morality from God, and then corrupt it because of our inherent imperfection?
In earlier posts I argued that morality doesn’t come from religion or God. I reasoned that if morality comes from religion, which religion? There are hundreds of versions of Christianity each with their own concepts of what constitutes morality, and they can’t all be correct; so that would seem to rule out the vast majority of religions as the source of morality. Of course each religion believes theirs is The One, but the fact that there’s more overlap than differences seems to indicate that religions per se aren’t the source of morality, but something higher; in other words, maybe religions are taking their cue from some other source. That source would logically be “god,” of course.
So maybe religions interpret what God intends, but they do so imperfectly. That would allow for God to be the ultimate source of morality, with imperfect interpretation by humans, kind of like Plato’s metaphor of the cave; what we see is an imperfect and ill-focused version of the “real.” OK then; but if true, wouldn’t it make sense that God would not allow for misinterpretation? For example, if you’re a parent, wouldn’t it make sense to be crystal clear on instructions to your children, especially on important matters? And if we, as imperfect humans, see the importance of clarity, wouldn’t God (in whose image we’re told we were made) be even more aware of this? And yet we all struggle to understand how to live a moral life; so I argued that if God was in fact the source of morality, he did a pretty poor job of communicating some critically important instructions to us. If our relationship with Him is dependent upon doing His will, but we don’t know for sure what that is (at least in the context of what is “moral”), how can we really be held accountable for our actions? And yet it seems clear from the Bible that we are held accountable; some even believe that what we do in our lives could conceivably condemn us to torment for all eternity (although I never bought that!) In any case, it seems to follow that our sense of morality would be much more clear if it were truly God-given. (This is just one of several lines of reasoning on this subject.)
One response to that is we were given this sense of morality by god, but Satan and our own imperfection has clouded our minds. This is essentially what I was taught as a young JW. (It’s a very Manichean belief system!) And it naturally followed that we shouldn’t think for ourselves, but should rely on the standards set out in the Bible to tell us what was right and wrong. And since the Bible is pretty confusing and doesn’t deal with things going on now (the Internet, birth control, celebrating birthdays and whether or not to agree to a blood transfusion, as specific examples), we were told on one hand to accept the Bible, but on the other hand to “not put too much emphasis on our own understanding of it.” In other words, it’s best to let the leaders in Brooklyn tell us what to do; they should interpret the Bible for us. And if you’d prefer, substitute the Pope, Joel Osteen or Jim and Tammy Faye for the Governing Body of the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society in Brooklyn and you’ve got the same concept: as imperfect humans we should not depend upon our own moral compass but should let other, presumably smarter or more “holy” folks do it for us.
Well, setting aside the whole Jim and Tammy Faye thing, does it make sense that we can’t really judge morality for ourselves due to our “fallen state?” Let’s say the answer is “yes.” Then we’re back to the same question: how could the personification of love (God) continue to hold us accountable? If we can’t possibly know what’s moral, it makes no sense that we would be in peril of God’s wrath for not being able to follow a moral code that’s murky at best and outright contradictory at worst.
So again, the issue is the same: if God is going to hold us accountable, then why is it not more clear what constitutes a moral life? We shouldn’t have such a hard time figuring it out!
About BigBill
Stats: Married male boomer. Hobbies: Hiking, woodworking, reading, philosophy, good conversation.